Honestly I am from chicago and find that the p stones and vice lords and all the other black people nation gangs are VERY intertwined the way I see it they are not a single nation they are just a bunch of factions that place vice lord at the end of there name same for p stones the p stones have become a buch of little gangs that place stones at the end of their name. I think ya'll need to take "Second largest street gang" in Chicago off, they are the largest. VLN on the other hand started out on a crooked path, then went straight/legit, then went back to illegal activities. They did not start out nor end with illegal activity being their goal. The Panthers main goal was ecomonic improvement in the black community and self defense against a biased legal system. Therefore the Vice Lords is the oldest, however CVL is the oldest in terms of absolute organisation.- Anthonysenn 11:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC) The Vice Lords is the original gang, the Conservative Vice Lords was the attempt to incorporate and become a legit organisation much like the Black Panthers. There may be other gang articles that make similar claims, as I have not checked them all. Thus the question is, which is correct? One of them must be older than the other. While both are People affiliated, neither indicates that it's the same gang as the other and the histories differ. ![]() This article says "The Vice Lords is the oldest and the second-largest street gang in Chicago." ![]() The article at conservative says "The Chicago C.
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